A Vols Retrospective, with a Big Mug of Amnesia

[DobbsRover2]

I realize that UConn fans have no interest in anything about the Lady Vols and this post is just going to be greeted by a long thread of "Who cares?", but TJI's WHB has a link to a Nashville edition Memphis Ledger story called "Lady Vols Seem to Be Slipping Off the National Stage" by Dave Link that was written last weekend and supposedly updated to yesterday, though not really since the Vol and GameObscenity game is still in the future in the article. The theme I know will be extremely upsetting to many here on the Boneyard, but the info in the piece is all well-known and obvious, so I don't believe it will come as a total shock to anyone here that the Vol team is no longer the alpha chick that UConn used to have such a fun time partying with a while back.

But the best part of the article has to be the end piece where Link asks Lady Vols' longtime beat writer Dan Fleser a series of questions about the LV's that definitely can make at least one Husky fan feel he's living in an alternate universe from K-town's world. Among the choice Q&A tidbits:

1. When asked about whether the LV's could make a deep run in the Tournament (UTenn was still a defined #1 seed when the article was written), Fleser said the balanced LV's could do it because they had experience playing without Izzy Harrison, the team's lost leading scorer and rebounder.

So after hearing all those "sure we lost to Chattanooga and Texas, but that was without Izzy" lines from the fans, now it's that they have a bunch of Izzy-less players left who are balanced. Does not grok.

2. When asked when he noticed that the once dominant team of Pat Summitt had seen a power shift to "UConn and other schools," Fleser said it was some time after the last LV NC in 2008 when "All of a sudden UConn was winning multiple championships" and signing the very top players.

I get the feeling that someone was so buried in his beat that he didn't have time to pull his head out of a hole on Rocky Top and notice what was going on in women's basketball many years before. A little late to the party there, Dan, but we saved some clippings of the nets for you.

3. When asked why the LVs hadn't been to a Final Four since the Candy Girl left town, the proposed "big reason" was Brittney Griner, whose teams the LVs lost to twice, plus Skylar Diggins' Irish knocked them off once. Not having a first team All-American hurt the LVs when playing teams with a good player.

Just wow, and shame on Brittney that big bully, though in 2010 when she throttled the Vols she was a non-AA freshman and didn't look that impressive two games later against UConn. A team has one top player and you might as well fold the tent. Still think the real culprit was Ball State's Porchia Green, but actually in the six years of FF-less existence, the LVs have only gone up against 4 WBCA AA's in the 6 bow-out games, Diggins in 2011, Griner and Sims in 2012, and Thomas in 2014. And true they have only had Glory Johnson and Shekinna Stricklen as WBCA AAs due to some developmental problems, but BB is a team sport and to say that you just haven't got to the FFs because you had to play some tough teams with a good player in the Tourney doesn't speak well of all the slate of opponents in the years when the LVs did get to the FF.

4. When asked what it would take for the LVs to get back to the FF and win a championship, the answer was a real hoot. Fleser has a theory that teams that are led by top-level players tend to prosper in the post season (big Duhhhhhhhh there), which he thought LVs could "test" with Harrison in the lineup. Without her the answer is "I'm not sure now," though it's a little unclear whether he is unsure about his theory of Tourney success or whether the LVs have a chance this year.

Just speechless. Obviously it's time to start digging six feet down for the 2014-15 LVs. Maybe the theory can be retested next year because . . .

5. When asked whether the 6-year straight first-team-AA-less LVs need a star player to be successful, Fleser said that star power is the way to go and that Mercedes Russell and Diamond DeShields were #1 players in their class.

Can't argue with this point too much except to say that UTenn has had a number of other top recruits not really pan out in recent years, Russell was certainly not # 1 impressive in her freshman year and the "two foot surgeries" can be a sign of optimism or wariness, and that building a team around DeShields after her one-year education at UNC is a job for a tough task master.

6. When asked how to rate Holly Warlick's performance as LV coach, the answer was that "she had done a commendable job," and that recruiting was the key to the future.

That's certainly one way to look at it, though I'm not sure that "commendable" can ever produce any FF appearances let alone an NC, and yes, recruiting is an important part of building a winning team.

The seventh and last question was personal. I don't know, there's always hope for the future, but those who are fuzzy about their recent past may be doomed to repeat it.

 

[mtsuraider06]

For a fanbase that detests Tennessee so much, there certainly are a lot of Tennessee threads on here.

If they don't matter, why talk about them so much?

 

[VFLfan]

Can we just admit that this piece is by ONE beat-writer who, in all honesty, even Most LV fans don't agree with most of the time? I know that being on an opponents own message board comes with having to endure a ton of criticism about my team, but gah! Ya act like this article is what every LV fan thinks. Everyone and their grandmother who has any sense in their head knows UCONN is miles ahead than any other women's program right now. But we have to keep trying everything to get back to competing with you guys! Are we suppose to just give up and call it a day? And while yes, there were a ton of folks down here that blamed our earlier losses on not having Izzy, surely...if you can take an honest look at how the LVs have played in the last 3 games without her, you will see that this team NOW is not the same as the Izzy-less team that lost to Chatt and Texas. Players have stepped up and they are looking better in many aspects of the game. Has it been perfect? No...still need to fix the rebounding issue and from last nights showing, have to cut down on the absurd TOs...but they're playing better bball. Does this mean we have a chance vs UCONN? I don't think you'd find many LV fans that would say yes to that...but improvement is the only way to get back to competing with you guys.

 

[DobbsRover2]

And same back to the all the Tennessee sites as to why there are so many UConn threads on VN and the Summitt, or UConn and Geno asides in threads not remotely concerned about UConn, or why ESPN threads constantly get littered with Vol fans taking potshots at UConn and Geno?

The love and mutual attraction just runs so deep that we can't make a clean split, and for fans who generally feel their program is the tops in WCBB history and whose revered former coach can never be bettered, it's amazing how touchy they can get when anyone gives them any attention even though their remarks on other sites are always craving to be noticed like the big dogs nowadays. If the team is indeed a #1 seed, doesn't it deserve to be talked about?

There are many elements of past, present, and future Vol teams that make for good stuff to talk about, and I'm not necessarily sticking a fork in this year's squad because we have seen teams with some struggles in the past suddenly pull it all together and even get to an NC game. If UConn fans are going to be chastised by Vol fans like you who resent our watching the show, please go clean up the thousands of past postings on the Tenn sites devoted to UConn usually in the most unflattering or downright nasty language.

 

[CocoHusky]

For a fanbase that detests Tennessee so much, there certainly are a lot of Tennessee threads on here.

If they don't matter, why talk about them so much?

Kind of oxymoronic to say you detest something and that same something doesn’t matter. UT is part of UCONN glorious past so UT does matter IMO. This board is tolerant enough of a variety of opinions including remembering the past. Each reader/poster has enough tools to ignore or comment on any specific Thread. A Vols Retrospective starts the title of this particular thread; so it is probably UCONN fans talking about UT again. Why not just bypass it?

 

[CocoHusky]

Everyone and their grandmother who has any sense in their head knows UCONN is miles ahead than any other women's program right now. But we have to keep trying everything to get back to competing with you guys! Are we suppose to just give up and call it a day?

Absolutely not! Do not give up! That would would be to the detriment of everyone who loves WCBB.

 

[VFLfan]

And same back to the all the Tennessee sites as to why there are so many UConn threads on VN and the Summitt, or UConn and Geno asides in threads not remotely concerned about UConn, or why ESPN threads constantly get littered with Vol fans taking potshots at UConn and Geno?

The love and mutual attraction just runs so deep that we can't make a clean split, and for fans who generally feel their program is the tops in WCBB history and whose revered former coach can never be bettered, it's amazing how touchy they can get when anyone gives them any attention even though their remarks on other sites are always craving to be noticed like the big dogs nowadays. If the team is indeed a #1 seed, doesn't it deserve to be talked about?

There are many elements of past, present, and future Vol teams that make for good stuff to talk about, and I'm not necessarily sticking a fork in this year's squad because we have seen teams with some struggles in the past suddenly pull it all together and even get to an NC game. If UConn fans are going to be chastised by Vol fans like you who resent our watching the show, please go clean up the thousands of past postings on the Tenn sites devoted to UConn usually in the most unflattering or downright nasty language.

Your point is well taken...I personally hate all the trash talk by any fan, including LV fans. Both sides have dished out plenty of vitriolic mush for many years. Bitter rivalries are fun for sure...but a lot of the talk goes too far. I don't frequent the ESPN comments section, but I do VolNation and if you have gone there recently...I think you'd be surprised that many LVs have had nothing but praise about your Huskies...albeit said with a lil distain for having to admit our bitter rival is still the Queen of the ball. Yes there are still those that spew the hate toward you guys...but there always will be just as there will likely alway be fans of the Huskies that do the same. I hope we can stop the "hate" speech and get back to the fun poking and prodding between the two. And by "we," I don't mean you and me necessarily because I don't think we have engaged in that here. I enjoy it here and I appreciate you guys letting us be here!

 

[rvwsleep]

For a fanbase that detests Tennessee so much, there certainly are a lot of Tennessee threads on here.

If they don't matter, why talk about them so much?

For the same reason people slow down in a car when they pass an accident. They're relieved it wasn't them.

 

[stwainfan]

I like Flesser better than Adams. I don't subscribe or read all of the stuff. I don't totally agree with this. In the last 2-3 years the recruting has been better. Getting some of the top players. Russell, DeShields, Cooper. I think this years team has improved a lot. Still have too see the NCAA bracket. This team can still make the FF in the right bracket.

 

[DobbsRover2]

Your point is well taken...I personally hate all the trash talk by any fan, including LV fans. Both sides have dished out plenty of vitriolic mush for many years. Bitter rivalries are fun for sure...but a lot of the talk goes too far. I don't frequent the ESPN comments section, but I do VolNation and if you have gone there recently...I think you'd be surprised that many LVs have had nothing but praise about your Huskies...albeit said with a lil distain for having to admit our bitter rival is still the Queen of the ball. Yes there are still those that spew the hate toward you guys...but there always will be just as there will likely alway be fans of the Huskies that do the same. I hope we can stop the "hate" speech and get back to the fun poking and prodding between the two. And by "we," I don't mean you and me necessarily because I don't think we have engaged in that here. I enjoy it here and I appreciate you guys letting us be here!

Certainly agree that the VN is much much better than the Summitt was and is very readable and informative though it has its share of bile-drippers (and would have more of them if Geno hadn't undercut the old-guard gollums with #9). The fact that the two teams are no longer going head-to-head makes associations easier, and making a slightly complimentary post about the "other" team does not elicit the same vitriol from fellow posters that it once did. Even the clueless statements on the VN such as the one about UConn's conference games not being worth it for any network to cover (tell that to SNY, and ESPN and CBS) are now bereft of the half dozen insults that went with them. So progress is being made, and some day there may even be a "who do you want to win" BY poll someday about an upcoming game between UTenn and an opponent that will be split 50/50 (I confess, I put away a couple of pints of moonshine this morning before writing that last thought).

Progress is being made, and there was actually a time way way way back when dinosaurs roamed the earth that there were exchanges between UTenn and UConn posters on either site that did talk about substantive WCBB topics with only occasional bursts of machine gun fire interrupting things. Obviously couldn't happen ever again, but on some days the earth can stand still.

 

[Aluminny69]

One can only speculate how the course of WCBB might have changed IF Maya Moore had decided to attend Tenn. Certainly, Pat Summitt knew the importance of that decision.

 

[AnotherVolFan]

Wow was this a serious thread?

 

[CocoHusky]

One can only speculate how the course of WCBB might have changed IF Maya Moore had decided to attend Tenn. Certainly, Pat Summitt knew the importance of that decision.

Could the same also be said of Candice Parker & Elena Delle Donne?

 

[Aluminny69]

Could the same also be said of Candice Parker & Elena Delle Donne?

Of course. But I was referencing the speculation in the article in terms of top players going to Tenn.

 

[DobbsRover2]

One can only speculate how the course of WCBB might have changed IF Maya Moore had decided to attend Tenn. Certainly, Pat Summitt knew the importance of that decision.

The very thought of it makes me feel like blowing lunch.

But yes Georgia had been part of Pat's protected territory, so she did assume Maya Moore was a UTenn get and clearly knew what missing out on her meant. It was a testament to the growing reach of Geno's recruiting that really started becoming evident with getting Shea Ralph that the South was no longer Pat's for first, second, and third helpings ahead of Geno. More than anything, it was the recruiting-area war that was the wedge that split the relationship completely apart and made Pat reach for something with the NCAA charges that was a poisonous legacy that may never be set aside to UConn's satisfaction.

 

[Bayareahusky]

Of course. But I was referencing the speculation in the article in terms of top players going to Tenn.

Maybe I am seeing this from a different take, but I have always thought Tenn IS getting the best players to play for the Lady Vols.... no not Stewart, E Williams, Griner, or Aja Wilson, but they have plenty of talent.... if i go down the roster since Pat left, almost every player is worth their salt...... Glory J, Stricklen, Spani, Burdick, Massengale, Graves, Harrison, Diamond, Mercedes etc..... Holly has done a good job recruiting.... they just haven't for whatever reason put it all together.....

I find Fleser's answers a little flimsy. Citing Griner and Diggins as key reasons why TN hasn't achieved the Final 4..... we are talking about the historical juggernaut program of WCBB..... and to be taken down by a single player on contending upstart teams is not a solid reason... I will continue to contend that just about all of TN's problems funnel down into coaching..... as W Edward Deming, the American who revolutionized Japanese business once said..... if a company has a problem, it is most assuredly 100% management's issue to solve, because they have all the control to adapt and change what they are doing..... same with Holly..... even though Fleser talks about the tough situation she took over, and transition..... I mean, yes it was tough with Pat's illness, I get that, but geez, she had 30 years as an assistant coach the next seat to Pat, one year as head coach effectively, as Pat was not involved that much in 2011-2012, and now finishing her 3rd year as running her program..... still lacks in teaching the fundamentals..... even though has gotten a bit better as evidenced by the USC game..... still not a focus on offense in lieu of total commitment to defense....... good play a byproduct, she thinks, of energy and effort..... still more a rah rah coach than a demanding coach..... I continue to believe this is the LV's weak link..... Fleser can say UConn is getting all the best players..... but UC DEVELOPS them well as well..... Dolson was #40 in country, Faris was 34, Kia Nurse was 33 if my memory is correct...... even Hartley at 14 had 2 or 3 others rated higher than her at her position.....

For my part on the question "why pay attention to Tennessee?"..... ostensibly I have no present issues with the Lady Vols, and like the posters here on this forum..... but what gets me going are the over the top supporters.... and the constant trumpeting about how classy Pat always has been and "UConn, you know what you did" in the absence of anything substantive in NCAA investigation...... something TN fans have parroted for 8 years now..... you guys cheated, but we just don't know exactly what you did...... and the other thing that gets me is the fan boards that go nasty on Geno...... swearing at him, and calling him cheater, etc..... nobody deserves that... I personally have never thrown nasty stuff at Pat or the Tenn program..... You know what it is?..... these 2 things act as a "Roadrunner" for me,..... if i am Wile E. Coyote, and someone puts a picture of Roadrunner in front of me, in the form of these 2 things..... it gets me going....... having said all that, no current vitriole with the LVs...... and I hope they play well and prosper........ and of course I hope we have the chance to play each other in the not too distant future

 

[HuskyNan]

Please, all, if people want to talk smack on other boards, with the insults and name-calling towards UConn, please leave it there. We don't need that junk here on the Boneyard.